PUBLISHED INTERVIEW OF AALEP CHAIR BY ‘DACI’ OF MONTENEGRO

On 5-6 June 2013, the Directorate for the Anti-Corruption Initiative (DACI) of Montenegro organized in Podgorica in collaboration with the Center for Security Cooperation RACVIAC a round table entitled “Prevention of corruption-the implementation of integrity plans.” The roundtable was sponsored by the Office of Technical Assistance and Information Exchange of the European Commission - TAIEX.

On this occasion, AALEP Chair (Mr. Christian D. de Fouloy) was interviewed by DACI and herewith is the publication of this interview as it appears in the Bulletin of the Directorate for Anti-Corruption Initiative (DACI) of Montengro in July 2013

Q. Lobbying is an activity that is not sufficiently familiar to the general public. Lay public often equates the term with manipulation, corruption, bribery etc. In what way can you affect the change of the negative perception of lobbying.

A. You have asked an interesting question. It is true that lobbying is often associated with corruption. But corruption is a crime, lobbying is not. I think that we need education about what lobbying is. I have spent a lot of time educating people about what corruption is and what it is not. The equalization of corruption and lobbying was largely related to Central and Eastern Europe. This means that for them lobbying means exercise of undue influence on public authorities. Someone gives you money to get a license, a permit.

In rare moments you will hear about lobbying, mainly by the media whose reports on lobbyists are mostly negative. Scandals are selling well and the media are increasingly turning to “bad stories” about lobbyists instead of reporting on the benefits of lobbying. Therefore, it is not surprising that the lobbyists in public are often characterized as the “bad guys”.

Q. How does everyday business of lobbyists look like, what challenges do they face?

A. Much time is spent in the office researching, analyzing a particular situation, we follow the chronology, compare data, we estimate, perform the evaluation. Our task is to arrange meetings with public officials. Meetings take very little of our time so that 70% of the time is related to the research while 30% on direct lobbying. Basically, people we meet have no more than 15 minutes to grant us to convince them. When you meet with parliamentarians they have no more than 15-20 minutes to talk to you and it is good for them to be accompanied by an assistant, and it is desirable for lobbyists to be accompanied by someone as well. After the meeting a lobbyist sends a recap of the meeting and continues to monitor communications. Our core business is writing position papers of maximum two pages because people do not like extensive stories, and expect us to be as concrete as possible.  If they seek further clarification we deliver them supporting material.

In response to the second part of your question, I think that in this business there is no success without forming an effective alliance/coalition between several groups and it is the hard work. The problem with an alliance/coalition is who encourages its formation, who is in charge of the alliance, who coordinates the activities within. Another problem is that we meet people who are not lobbyists. Therefore alliance/coalition building is a complex issue because in the beginning we all share the same views and soon after a few meetings, disagreements come to surface. Also all members of the alliance/coalition do not invest equal time and effort.

Q. You argue that states do not need special laws on lobbying?

A. Right. I do not share the opinion of colleagues who hold the view that the passage of a law on lobbying is necessary. No law that I have ever studies was effective. Much has been discussed on this subject. There are various definitions of lobbyists and lobbying activities and you will not encounter the same opinion. When regulating lobbying you have different views so it is really a complicated area. On the other hand there are exceptions about who is not considered a lobbyist. But it is important to establish a register of lobbyists. For example, even the EU has no law that applies to this area, but the registration of lobbyists is required. A registry is all you need.

Q. Why do you think that an independent body should supervise the register of lobbyists?

A. If you have supervisory authority you should have independence. The independent body should not be within the Parliament or the Executive Branch but it can be an institution such as the Commissariat for lobbying that exists in Quebec, Canada or an Ethics Committee as is the case in Lithuania. Supervision of the register can be performed by the Ombudsman who would deal with the control of various abuses by public officials and lobbyists. I believe that the Ombudsman could be responsible for the supervision of the Registry and the one to warn and indicate in his report who is violating the registration requirements an other rules of lobbying.

Q. Do you think it’s good to make a register on the website of the anti-corruption agencies such as the Commission for Prevention of Corruption of the Republic of Slovenia which on its Web site publishes the registry of lobbyists? Do you think it could have a negative connotation.?

A. It may be so, or it can be something like the Transparency Register which was set up by the European Parliament and the European Commission, which in a transparent and straightforward manner allows citizens access to information about who is involved in activities that aim to influence the decision-making process in the EU, whose interests are represented and what funds are invested in these activities. The register is available on the website http://europa.eu/transparency-register. On the other hand the fact that the registry of lobbyists is led by an anti-corruption agency may imply a kind of negative connotation i.e. that the profession requires additional attention from the regulators. For this reason, I advocate the idea that the registry should be published on the Ombudsman’s website who is the link between citizens and the government and who would monitor abuses, of course if he/she would agree to take on the job. You also could establish a brand new office, which in my opinion is an expensive idea. Montenegro is a small country and I would not so much complicate the situation about who will maintain the register of lobbyists. The register should be as simple as possible. When it comes to lobbying you should primarily and essentially set clear rules of conduct for public officials, elected and appointed with precise guidelines, instructions, standards between them and lobbyists.

Q. How to control a lobbyist who fails to report that he/she had a meeting with a public official and does not submit the minutes of the meeting held?

A. A Lobbyist is required to make a report on the meeting held with basic information about with whom he held a meeting, where and when and on what subject. If he/she fails to do so, the lobbyist violates the law and the rules of conduct.

Q. Which country in your opinion has the best legislation and practice with regard to lobbying?

A. For me the Canadian model is the most efficient. Canadians, unlike Americans when it comes to lobbying do not discuss the effects but the communication which gives lobbying a wider meaning. As I mentioned  earlier Quebec has a Commissariat for lobbying. Unlike them, the Australian legislation recognizes individual lobbyists who are paid by the client (consultant lobbyists) but does not regulate the issue of in-house lobbyists who work for an employer e.g. a company. Such a decision is weird considering that in Australia you have many people working as in-house lobbyists for example in mining companies  and their activities are not regulated.

Q. At the round table you have said that education is extremely important for lobbyists?

A. There are different opinions on this matter. Lobbying is a practical work and theorizing on this topic cannot make one a successful lobbyist. The Association of which I am the Founder is offering a special training program for lobbyists. AALEP in collaboration with scientists from the fields of politics developed a comprehensive certified program for public policy advocates with a view to provide professional public policy advocates , as well as employees in the European Parliament the advanced knowledge and skills required for effective work in public policy advocacy especially within the European Union. The program includes five modules that last for six months and comprises 144 hours. The only requirement for taking the course is a Bachelors’ Degree. The program sets new high standards of professionalism and accountability for advocates in the public policy field. This Certified program is based on the active participation and learning with an emphasis on interactive work.